Podcast Episode 17: Why We Need Revelation As Christians? Special Guest Bro. Benjamin Norrod – Pt.2

Bro. Ben Norrod and his wife Samantha

On this episode we continue our interview with bro. Ben Norrod who is a well known evangelist across the country and around the world of this precious End-Time Message. He currently attends Believer’s Tabernacle in Murfreesboro Tennessee currently pastored by Bro. Joseph Hamid.

Bro. Ben and his wife are also musicians and singers and currently run a website Called The Norrods Music which you can visit at thenorrodsmusic.com. Their first CD is available for purchase on their website entitled Feeling Fine.

On This Episode Bro. Ben shares with us:

1. Why there is a great need for the people to obtain more revelation and comprehension of the Word that is being preached today from the pulpits.

2. Why our source of revelation should not come just from the massive learning that you can obtain about the Word, but by the baptism of the Holy Ghost vindicating that Word in your life.

3. What is true Bible-based Salvation and why it’s so important to just take God at his Word in order to be saved.

4. What’s the New Birth and what happens after you obtain it?

5. His testimony of how God took a fighting spirit off of him when he received the Holy Ghost as a teenager.

6. Why God wants you saved and filled with his Spirit more than you think He does.

You may contact bro. Ben by:

Email: thenorrodsmusic@gmail.com

Facebook: facebook.com/benjamin.norrod

Website: thenorrodsmusic.com

Benjamin Norrod: I do feel we’re getting it. I feel like the bride is [00:46:00] really recognizing her position. I do feel that there is, that we as ministry, we need to, I believe we’re in a season of teaching. I believe that instruction and how to apply the word is, is very, is very, very paramount right now. Um, I really just see a need for people establishing themselves better in what they believe. Because mentioning this again, this anti Branum move is basically just. It’s almost like another message split only it’s an anti brand and message split. These people are doing the very same things that all of the other split groups and split churches have done. They’re taking a little bit of what they call truth, and they’re pulling a collective off to the side for themselves. And, but this particular group, they’re anti Brandon people, you know? Well, you know, we, we see these Devo, these divisions and these [00:47:00] divided groups all around the ranks of the message. And it’s discouraging to say the least, but the results of every bit of this is, it was, it was all. Hinged upon somebody raising up and saying, Hey, we need to understand the thunders. Hey, we need to understand the mercy seat or the judgment seat of Christ, or what took place in 63 of the opening of the seals. Hey, does anybody understand what a white wig one means? I mean, a lot of these doctrines were birthed out of a, out of a genuine desire, I believe, to try to get people to understand the message. And, and, and find their place in it. I believe we’re doing that and now that we’re kind of waiting through all of the muck of the doctrines and all these things that are going on, uh, I, I think we’re beginning to see a clearer picture. Um, I think the, the true fivefold ministry in this message has to, my opinion, has done a very good job at keeping the [00:48:00] message pure, trying to keep the smut off of the message like brother Brown instructed us and asked us to do. Uh, I, I do feel like that’s happening. I do feel the Lord is moving amongst the elect. But I also see a great moving of the church or the foolish Virgin that is crying for oil, crying for something, crying and reaching out, and whether a person believes they’re in the message or how the message, uh, on my personal opinion is I see a moving of. If not foolish Virgin, at least a population of church, people that are crying out for something and not getting there. And that disturbs me because you know, of all the preaching that’s gone on in this message and everything that is archived and on YouTube and on Facebook and, and videos, and all of the plethora of stuff that we’ve got today, the only reason people don’t understand that now, I believe, is because they’re either afraid. And they’re scared of what they’re going to get into or they just don’t want to. [00:49:00] So there’s, there’s a, there’s a couple of populations that kind of exist within our message, and that is a group that is, uh, you know, they, they, we’ve got it all, this is the truth and we don’t need to move on with anything else. And yet they’re stagnated in what they believe. Then we got a group that is scared to death to move forward. And then you hear, you’ve got between all of this, the little bride kind of squeezed in between all of this that’s grabbing everything she can get ahold of them to try to make it live, you know? Um, so I guess you always have this mixed multitude and every move of God and, and our message is no difference. The same as Luther, the same as any other moves of God that we’ve had. Um, but I do believe the bride’s getting there. I believe she is now, as far as the church and other folks, you know, you see a lot of division and things, but I think the elect. It’s really getting there. I really do.

[00:49:47] Luis Urrego: [00:49:47] Amen. Amen. Praise the Lord. Brother Ben. Yes. Uh, I, I see it, I see it the way to, and it’s not just in the United States, but all, but it’s all around the world. And, um, where if, [00:50:00] uh, that brother, let’s say in the Philippines, has the Holy ghost, just like I have the Holy ghost or anybody here has the Holy ghost, the genuine, a genuine word, birth, you know. Uh, they should, the Holy spirit should be leading them to the exact same thing.

[00:50:15] Benjamin Norrod: [00:50:15] I know that, uh,

[00:50:16] Luis Urrego: [00:50:16] and I’m seeing that more and more. Um, even with, uh, even amongst Christians that don’t even have all of the messages available to them, but what with what they do have. And with the Holy spirit revealing things to them. My goodness. They, they preach some incredible things, uh, and bring out some, some really, uh, awesome things from the word that compared to, to some of these ministers who have the full message and, and, and, and, you know, and, and, and it just, it just, it just baffles me because, you know, I think it’s really the time that you put into it is what you’re

[00:50:55] Benjamin Norrod: [00:50:55] going to get out of it. Yeah. And that’s a great point because it shows us also [00:51:00] that our source of revelation doesn’t come from the mass of learning or memorizing. It comes from our, our real source of revelation, which is the baptism of the Holy ghost. You know, a person can take a handful of books and do some great things with it. Uh, with a Bible in one hand and a handful of books in the other, they can do great things with it because revelation doesn’t need the boundaries of the written word to be able to preach. You know, amen. And the Holy spirit can reach in the things in the mind of God and pull things out that you don’t even know. Zen. The message. And I had those experiences before the computer came along. Well, you know, I was young enough when I started preaching the, uh, remember what it was like to preach without a computer, without having all the message available where you didn’t have all the books. And I had maybe 25 books that I preached out of for several years before the computer come along. And, and I, the Lord would reveal things to me and I’d be preaching things that when the computer did come along, I would find those exact quotes, almost verbatim statements [00:52:00] I had made under the anointing. That brother Brandon said, I didn’t even know he said it. You know, so that are versus the baptism of the Holy ghost and that, that source of revelation, that’s the very thing that is bringing the bride together. I do believe she is coming together under the revelation of this hour under the open word. Uh, I just, I don’t think it’s as visible. And maybe to the world, but I think there’s a purpose behind that. To belittle these. I believe that the purpose of that almost invisibility visibility, if you will, is because brother Branam taught us that this, that’s getting ready to happen, that we call the third pool will not be a public show. Absolutely. So there’s some things happening under wraps that really none of us could describe or speak to or put a, put a label on it or a descriptor and say, okay, this is how we know the elect is doing.dot, dot. We just can’t do that because this new thing that’s happened to the elect of God called the third pool is something that’s going to be a private individual [00:53:00] affair. Between her and her Lord. And the revelation of this message will come in such a private, personal way that just like when the angel, the Lord told brother Bram and the little room there on the 10th vision, I’ll meet you in that little room. He said, why in that little room? He said, well, don’t you remember in Matthew six when Jesus said, when you pray, enter into your closet, and then here’s where the Ram comes along and says. Prayer is the key to the mysteries of God. So it proves really, rather, I mean, the, the real, real bottom line of it all is it proves that, you know, this experience that we’ve got with the Holy ghost, it, it is not defined by what we have learned. You know, it’s limitless. It’s boundless. It’s boundary lists. There’s no limits that we can wrap around these things. And, and at the risk of sounding a little preachy here, you know, the, the problem I think that we have with people who fail to embrace that is because to them, boundaries and limits and [00:54:00] definitions and labels are security blanket for their salvation. You see what I’m saying? They use those. That is as the Pharisees used phylacteries and boarders and hymns of garments and those things as as proof that they were a genuine Israelite people in the message. I feel I’ve done the same thing again, not to say people, I mean all of us, but there’s a population that that has done that very thing and they use these. These limits and these boundaries and these descriptors and these terminologies and these things. Okay. This is how I know air quotes that I am a believer in air quotes again. You know, but that’s not it. That’s not it. It’s not really an ISIS rule, not it. Not,

[00:54:43] Luis Urrego: [00:54:43] yeah. You brought up some really good, interesting things that are brother Ben. Um. I feel like preaching now.

[00:54:51] Benjamin Norrod: [00:54:51] I’m feeling a little religious to read it.

[00:54:56] Luis Urrego: [00:54:56] No, but that is the, that is the hour that we’re [00:55:00] living in. And uh, totally agree with you that it has become more and more a

[00:55:05] Benjamin Norrod: [00:55:05] thing where

[00:55:05] Luis Urrego: [00:55:05] it needs to be a personal relationship between you and Christ, not just with you. You and your church, not you and your pastor and the entity. Um, but it’s, it’s you and the entity of the Holy ghost, the Jesus Christ. And, uh, it’s, that’s, that’s the one that’s the one that’s going to help you continue growing in

[00:55:26] Benjamin Norrod: [00:55:26] Christ. You know? And can I say one thing here? I, I wanna I wanna put this in here too, because I think this is important in our discussion. Go ahead. Rather than when we go back to, you know, speaking to salvation. Just, and I’m not talking about the Holy ghost, I’m talking about just salvation. I think we have an issue that it needs to be addressed, I think really needs to be looked at correctly. And again, I don’t, I could, I wouldn’t dare put a number on how many would do this or [00:56:00] not do this, but. When it comes to salvation. I had a, I had a close friend that left a message, uh, three or four years ago. I forget exactly how long, but, uh, his one complaint was, is you message people believe that in order to be saved, you have to know the name William Branam. Well, my answer to that was my response was be careful who you’re identifying as those that believe that because. I think bill Lewis, I think, and, and to, to the listeners that would, would be interested in and, and the idea of what salvation is. I, I want to submit to these that are listening and, and in this particular discussion, I really want to highlight this next point is that salvation is between you and Jesus Christ. Salvation can be accomplished outside of the message. I’m not talking about the baptism. Holy ghost. Now I’m talking about salvation. [00:57:00] It’s exactly right. And salvation has nothing to do with your works, what you’ve done, what you haven’t done to be saved. One just simply needs to recognize their center and they need a savior. And I think what we’ve done. And again, when I say we, I mean just the population, but it’s definitely been something that’s ongoing, so deeply in the ranks of the message that has caused problems. I think what we’ve done is we have taken away from the people the ability to just simply be saved first, to just meet Jesus and have an experience with the Lord Jesus, and to be saved to just experience the great, wonderful, powerful. Delivering feeling and experience and understanding of what it means to be a center. And now, no longer, I am not a center. I’m free from my sins. I had been washed by the blood of Jesus Christ to experience that has almost become like a, well, okay, but we need to get them [00:58:00] to the message yet I know that. And, and, and please allow me to say publicly, I’ve spent my life. Declaring that I believe that you need a, a new birth. According to the revelation of this day. I don’t think we can be born again as Trinitarians or as a one this people, I mean, the one that’s doctrine, I don’t think we can be born again under, uh, you know, I’ve said I’m not a Trinity and I’m not a Trinity. I don’t believe in two gods either. I mean, we, we have to come together and understand that God is a person as a man, the Christ Jesus that was sent to this world whom on the 25th of December, we’re supposed to honor as being the birth of our Lord Jesus. Well, I, I, I know they try on the 25th but I wish every day of the year people would just take some time, even message folks and just honor the fact. That this God, the Lord Jesus Christ wants to save us. I mean, Holy ghost aside, revelation [00:59:00] aside, mystery is terminology. Depth aside, he just wants to save us and as I feel the anointing of the Holy ghost on these words, I want to say to the listeners, you that are listening to this podcast, if you are struggling in your heart to know what I’m talking about, you just simply have to say to your savior. I am a center and I want you to save me and I want you to reveal yourself to me and then just allow him to take over and really friends with Luis. I mean, why? Why does it have to be more complicated than that? I’ve never understood.

[00:59:38] Luis Urrego: [00:59:38] Absolutely, but has been. I couldn’t agree with you more. Uh, we’re the ones who make the Christian life, uh, complicated. Um, Jesus said, my burden is light.

[00:59:48] Benjamin Norrod: [00:59:48] Yes, sir.

[00:59:49] Luis Urrego: [00:59:49] And we’re the ones who were the ones who make it

[00:59:51] Benjamin Norrod: [00:59:51] heavy.

[00:59:52] Luis Urrego: [00:59:52] Absolutely right. It’s just as simple as

[00:59:55] Benjamin Norrod: [00:59:55] taking

[00:59:55] Luis Urrego: [00:59:55] God at his

[00:59:57] Benjamin Norrod: [00:59:57] word. Is it a relevant amen? Amen. [01:00:00] Absolutely right.

[01:00:00] Luis Urrego: [01:00:00] And obeying his word. Do what he said in his word as far as salvation. Repent of your sins. Ask God for forgiveness. He’s more than willing to do so more than you even wanted. And so, uh, and I totally agree with you by the band. Uh, if, if. You know, there is a salvation. And of course, like as you said, that is of course a separate thing from the new birth because the new birth has to do with the revealed revelation of the word personally to you is what brother random said. But, uh, um, but we, if people could just, sometimes preachers try to get people to be good on the outside first

[01:00:41] Benjamin Norrod: [01:00:41] and then,

[01:00:42] Luis Urrego: [01:00:42] or, or you have to understand that God sent a prophet in this day. Well. I believe, I believe, uh, I believe Luther

[01:00:50] Benjamin Norrod: [01:00:50] had, had

[01:00:51] Luis Urrego: [01:00:51] had the new birth in his day or

[01:00:54] Benjamin Norrod: [01:00:54] how salvation

[01:00:54] Luis Urrego: [01:00:54] in his day, John Wesley for the word that they had in their

[01:00:58] Benjamin Norrod: [01:00:58] day. You see.

[01:00:59] Luis Urrego: [01:00:59] Right. [01:01:00] And they didn’t know anything about brother Brandon.

[01:01:02] Benjamin Norrod: [01:01:02] No, no, of course not. No. They were only required to, to come through the same channels that we have come through and what truth has been allotted to them. They were only required to own up to that truth. And I feel like that a lot of times when we talk about rejecting the word people in their minds, they feel like, well, it’s, it’s rejecting the message, not all the time. Actually, it’s not about rigid. What truth? Can I say it this way? Not what truth we reject, but about rejecting truth in general. Um, somebody at a ball game could stand up and hold up a sign. St John three 16, somebody in a motel room see it on a TV, open up their desk drawer, pull out a Gideon Bible, go to st John three 16 for God so loved the world and stuff at it. Ah ha. That what? A bunch of nonsense. And. Without even hearing the name of the brand. I’m more stepping into a message church or meeting a message brother or sister, or hearing a message sermon preached, or a message song about [01:02:00] Ellie Les or some kind of thing like that. They have rejected the word of God at that level and they can never go any further because of that truth that they rejected. So what we’re talking about is the difference between rupturing faith and salvation. Now, if you want to go on the rapture. You’ve got to know the name William Branam because there is no rapture string faith outside of the revelation of this message, which is the opening of those seven seals. The book of revelation itself was the unfolding of more mysteries than just what Paul had. Paul did not have the revelation of the mystery of those seven seals. He did not have that part. We’ve got what Paul had plus what was in that book of revelation. For example, if I was at Paul and Peter and John and these guys down, and I was to say, now Paul, you’re the pattern messenger. You’re the one that set the tone for us of an angel preaches in a Contra, led me curse. Now you tell me. Do you understand what John wrote on the allopaths? He’d have to say, no, I could move [01:03:00] to Peter. Peter, you got the keys. You the Holy ghost, use you to go to the Gentiles and so forth. Do you understand? You know, I don’t understand it. John the Revelator John the divine, they call it going to say, John. You’re the one who had the visions, you put them in this symbol form, wrote them as wrote this book down like this, these letters that you got that, do you understand what’s in there? No. Absolutely. But now ask us, ask me. Ask you as somebody else that’s got the revelation of these things. Do you understand what’s going on in the book of revelation? We can say yes. Amen. Oh yes. Then revealed to us, we see it. So that’s a great thing. But that book is reserved for the bride. The elect alone. Everything else outside of that is for everybody else. In other words, when we’re talking about salvation, the foolish Virgin are saved, but they never get the Holy ghost. So if it’s a matter of rupturing faith or salvation, then the foolish Virgin are out. Because if they never come to the baptism, the Holy ghost and receive rupturing faith and get their stuff ready for the rapture, then they must be out. Well, no, [01:04:00] because Jesus said that they would receive white robes because of the testimony that they keep and how they hold themselves and, and go through the tribulation and give their lives and all these things. Uh, the 144,000, they received the baptism of the Holy ghost. But how many of the Jews down through that fifth seal, the souls under the altar that had no idea about even Jesus Christ, the Messiah as far as revelation goes, riser blinded, recede white robes, they’re saved. They’re saved, but under the truth that they had. So God is the Lord. Jesus is a lot more broad than what we’ve made. Oh, absolutely. His tent stretches a lot bigger than what we’ve made him. So I, I certainly agree with you. I think what we need to do as believers is we need to move forward in the divine revelation of the hour, but we should never, ever, and I strongly urge, we should never forget where we came from.

[01:04:57] Luis Urrego: [01:04:57] Absolutely. And never, never take [01:05:00] away good old salvation,

[01:05:01] Benjamin Norrod: [01:05:01] Amanda, that. Yeah.

[01:05:03] Luis Urrego: [01:05:03] Yeah. Cause that’s very needful. And that’s a stepping stone for people to continue forward in the, in the word, you know. So, um, in, in doing insane that brother Ben, let me ask you this and I’m kind of shifting gears now to, um, towards talking a little bit regarding, uh, the young people. Um, uh,

[01:05:24] Benjamin Norrod: [01:05:24] wha

[01:05:24] Luis Urrego: [01:05:24] how is it that a young person, they, they have heard that they need a new birth all their life. And so how can you explain to them what the new birth is and, um, and, and what happens after you get the new

[01:05:40] Benjamin Norrod: [01:05:40] birth? Okay. Um. So, so I mean the, yeah, I guess you realize that, that, that particular question could never be solved on this podcast alone. We would run out of time and absolutely our gigabytes and everything would be exhausted by the time we got done. Really, really digging this. But, [01:06:00] uh, digging into this, but I, I will, I will try to, I will try to say this very, very, very, very quickly and, uh, not to rush through it, but to just give you a brief enough description that. It won’t cross any doctrinal lines and it be very simply put and concerning. The new birth is acts two 38 repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and you shall receive the gift of the Holy ghost if a person really understands what it means to repent. Now, I know that we have a lot of amendments that we have placed. Again, when I say we, please understand. I don’t mean everybody, but there is a significant population of brothers that I’ve heard preach through the years that when they say acts two 38 there’s about 15 amendments that go to that. Will you repent? But you got to see my, like I have for you. Repent. But also you have to understand the [01:07:00] Godhead. You get a repent, but you got an understand Serpenti too. Oh, and don’t forget about marriage and divorce. We got a, you know, those are significant things. Well. Aye. Aye. Aye. And one reason, one reason I was laying this in about salvation is cause I think all of this is connected. If a person really desires the new birth, listen, understand right now as believers and as open minded people, openhearted people that are wanting truth, that you cannot seek for something that God is not calling you to. Okay. Right? And if a person and Jesus said it, you know, if I be lifted up. I will draw all men unto me and no man can call or come or approach. But what my father first. Calls him. It wasn’t Adam crying, Lord, we’re out though. It was Jehovah crying. Adam, where art though? So we know. We know all those, those, those points. No man seeks God at any time. So then the question comes, well, I want the Holy ghost, so how can I get it? Well then you hear preachers though, [01:08:00] say, and and honest when they say they’re just trying to help people and they just say, uh, you know, God wants to give it to you more than you really want. Yeah, well, wonderful and thank God and I’m not critical of that. I understand where they’re coming from. I’ve used the statement myself, but that word repent is very, very, very significant if you are to understand how to get the Holy ghost because true repentance. Is likened to the sermon brother Brennan preached about doors and the door, if I was going to parallel it with anything unparalleled there, that if you have a man wants to, or a woman for that matter, that they want to truly repent. Preacher deacon trust, I don’t care who they are. If they really desire to be, you know, really filled with the spirit of God and receive the gift of God, then, which we know is not tongues and it’s not non initial evidence is it’s just. Uh, an impartation of the spirit of God himself into your life that you [01:09:00] know, within the human heart or all these little doors. So you let Jesus and he becomes your savior. Um, but yet you haven’t fully repented necessarily because. Maybe you’re not letting him have access to certain areas of your life. And so brother Brown describes this as like an inspector years ago, and I don’t know, I guess they still do it to this day, but they, they would go through a box car on a railroad or a train, and they go into the box cars and they would inspect the goods to see if they were set right so they could make the journey. And then when it was, they put the seal on the outside of the door to make sure that what was on the inside would hold. Well. Remember the message, future home, um, a two 64 and I forget things. I used to know it by heart. The page number program said this, but he, he, he actually tells us these words. He says that it’s not when you accept the Holy ghost. But it’s when the Holy ghost accepts you and is, a friend of mine told me, just [01:10:00] just, uh, last year you said, I was preaching here the other day, and he said, I was telling somebody, do you realize that if the Holy ghost sealed you with your temper, the kind of temper that you’ve got, he said, do you realize that if you seal that into you, you would have that temper throughout eternity? So whatever’s laying in your life that is not yet surrendered to the Lord. Then those elements have to be addressed before you have met the criteria, so to speak, of repentance. Repentance is not God. I’m sorry. Repentance is Lord. You are going to take total control of this house because I’m going to let you take total control. Um. I’ve been preaching a sermon, uh, on my title has been the fear of being rejected and the joy of being accepted. And I went to first John chapter two, where John speaks about, um, we, we must have that we will have confidence. The word confidence [01:11:00] there means to speak without concealment. And what I think is significant there is, I think that. A lot of times the reason that people have not received the Holy ghost is not that God doesn’t want to give it to us, but that he sees some area of our life that we’re not willing to surrender yet, and he knows that if he gives us the Holy ghost, as my friend told me last year, a preacher friend, I thought it was a wonderful statement that if he seals you that way. Whatever conditioning is CEO’s you. That’s the way the boss car’s going to set whatever’s in there. That’s it. So he, he knows that either you need to yield that spot in your life or fully repent or say, God, I’m going out of the sending business, am going, I’m turning from sin to send no more. And that doesn’t, we’re not talking about mistakes and daily living now, but we’re talking about a complete and total surrender to the Lord to say, okay, whatever you want to do in here. I’m not going to conceal not [01:12:00] one part of my heart. I’m not shutting a door. I’m not closing a cupboard. I’m not. I’m not. I’m not tying off even the attic door. If you want to go in the attic space or on the basement, uh, you know, the crawl space of the whatever, we’re, I’m not concealing, not one thing. Once the person gets there, I believe, and there’s sincerely opened before the Lord, then that’s when full repentance has been met. And after doing so, then all the spirit can look down in our soul and say, okay, now they’ve met the condition of my word. Now there’s another thing goes with this faith. As we say, faith will bring the results. Okay, but, but remember, the confirmation of our faith is not us confirming our faith, but the Holy ghost is confirmed. By God. In other words, your faith is confirmed by God that once he sees that your faith is right and there’s not one speck of doubt in your soul [01:13:00] that you, you don’t doubt him. You don’t have any, any doubt to the word. You just trust him with all your heart and you’re just 100% no concealment wide open faith. Once God recognizes that, then he seals that faith with the baptism of the Holy ghost. He sends the seal as his approval. For your faith. So being a personal walk and a how, how a person knows that, that this is actually taken place. There’s no way to describe that. And please understand that. Listeners out there, I could give you all kinds of quotes and scriptures, but at the end of the day. You alone know whether or not you’re yielding yourself completely to the Lord. You know that your conscious declares to you those things. No preacher can define that for you. Oh, preacher can describe that for you and say, okay, well you’re not because of this. I could say that, but I might be wrong. The truth of the matter is, is that God give us a conscience and our human spirit so that we can identify our, our [01:14:00] feeling before the Lord in these matters. And if our heart condemns us in any way at all. That there’s something not right. Uh, I remember a preacher telling a story about when he was seeking for the Holy ghost years ago when he was a boy, stole a candy bar from a store that he had. He still frequented it actually. And, uh, he said that candy, that candy bar, uh, apartments give, I’m mean to say the, uh, the candy bar, rather. I’m trying, trying to say 12 things at once. I’m getting excited, but, uh, but, uh. Uh,  sitting in front of this basket. Robins I hear, doesn’t help talking about Sweden today, but, uh, am I right? Russell Stover next to it, so I’m kind of in the chocolate world right here. But, uh, but, but always, uh, he said that candy gum candy bar got to be as big as a car before instead of finally just stood up. And I went back to the owner and I laid money on the, on the counter, and I said, brother so and so, and I’m trying. Trying to get my life right with God. And years ago I stole a candy bar from your store and I wanted to repent for it and [01:15:00] said that once he slid the money over, the man started weeping in any, slid the money back, and he said, if you said you’re seeking for God to forgive you, and he said, yes, that’s right. He said, well, the Bible said, he said, I’m a Christian too. And the Bible said that you lay your gift to the alter and reconcile with your brother. And once that is forgiven, then you can go back and your heavenly father will forgive you. And he took the boy, the man, he was a, I guess a teenager at the time. He took him by the hand and he said, because I am forgiven you for this candy bar. Now you go back and let your heavenly father forgive you. And went back and prayed and received the Holy ghost right after that, that experience. So. It goes to prove. I think that that this baptism that we speak of, this experience we have with God, it is something that personal, you know, in your heart, whether or not you’re a believer, whether you really truly believe it. And I don’t mean doubts and frustrations and things that come with human nature. I mean in your heart of hearts, [01:16:00] something deep in you that speaks underneath everything else. All the other. There’s two things, but but not, and that one silent voice inside of you that when you put your head on your pillow tonight, that’s the voice that talks to you, that you know you’re not right. You know this, you know that. And I think God doesn’t play games with us, but release. I think that, I think it’s important to really understand that the Holy ghost is determined to help us. I don’t think the Lord just plays a hide and seek game. Um, Oh, if you want to, if you want to receive the Holy ghost, you’re going to have to figure it out. No, I don’t think the Lord operates that way. I think he tries to make this as easy for us as he can. So I’m saying as he can, I’m talking about the creator now. He can do anything he wants to do, but in our way of thinking of it, he makes it very simple for us so that we can figure all this [01:17:00] out. It’s not difficult. If we’ll just try to be sensitive to this moving of the spirit of God. Now, after a person receives the Holy ghost, it’s an experience that you cannot label. You cannot define it, you cannot describe it. It’s something that like her is, I was using the other night preaching a little little church about, uh, about the Holy ghost. And I asked all the sisters in the church to stand up, and I’ve done this several places, and I’d say, now you women in here that have had a baby, you stand up. And so they’d stand to their feet. And I would, I would kind of just with him a little bit, uh, you know, not making jokes too much, but just kind of trying to make a point. I said, now you didn’t have a baby, your dad and one sister just the other night when I pointed her, said, you didn’t have a baby. She’s holding the baby in her arms and she kind of held the baby up a little bit won’t, but they look like here, you know? So I mean, it’s one of those experiences that nobody could talk you out of it because you were there. It happened, you know, it happened. Just like with me, I couldn’t label it. I couldn’t describe it, but I knew [01:18:00] it took place. I think the Holy ghost operates that way, and it’s meant to be that way, so nobody can tamper with that. You know what I’m saying? It’s tamper-proof and the fact that whatever experience you had that way with God, it is such a personal, intimate thing between you and the Lord. Nobody can can fool with that, and that’s appropriate. That’s the way it should be. So Avenue, see the Holy ghost, it should be that positive to you. I mean, 20 years should not go by and you’re still wondering, 10 minutes shouldn’t go by and you’re still wondering. You’ll have moments where you say, well, maybe I did. Maybe I did. Maybe you’ll have those moments, but you’ll always be anchored from that point. Now, now comes the next part of your question, which is, how do you know afterwards? Well. That to me is easier than this first part because the after part is simply you watch your nature and what it is that you desire after, and you watch those things change in you. Um, whether I made a statement when rising of the sun, you know, [01:19:00] how do you know you’ve been quick? And he said, your soul changed, didn’t it? And that’s true. Your desire, your soul change, your everything that you wanted. Is now different and your wants are even different, greater than that. There’s something in you that has the ability to stick with the word. If it hurts you, if it offends you, if it burns your hide, as we say down here in the South, if it, if it, whatever it does, whatever the word does, there’s something in you that grabs ahold of that and says, Hey man, amen. Don’t understand it. Not even sure how it applies, but, and I believe it. And quite often, that is an experience in itself that happens even when sometimes you disagree. I had, I remember, I remember when I was a young Christian, I could not understand Matthew 28 19 and acts two 38 and I remember arguing with my parents, I’d already been baptized the name of Jesus Christ. I knew [01:20:00] that was right. But I’d say they’re contradictory one to another. He’s saying titles over here and then he’s saying, name over here and mind you, I had a Holy ghost, but I didn’t understand that part of baptism. And one day I was just sitting there with my Bible open and I read through Matthew 28 19 and I flipped over, read the acts. I said, well, Lord. All I know is this is your word, and somehow or another it’s gotta be right. I just don’t understand that. And do you know brother, I flipped it back over to Matthew 28 19 and that word name and a looked like it was 20 foot long, four stories tall, and it just, it just popped out at me. And so that’s what I’m saying is that it’s not, it’s not a mental thing. It’s not an intellectual reconciliation. It’s something that inside of you, you immediately gravitate to the word. Because your gravitational pool is to the word right, that that’s one way you know it’s the most essential way. You know that you’ve got the Holy ghost. Another way the Bible said is that you [01:21:00] love your brother. Eternal life is living for the man that would kill you. When you get there, you’re standing in the vestibule of heaven. You are looking heaven in the face when you can live for the man that would kill you. So that’s a pretty powerful thing. Um, do you mind if I share a testimonial on that part?

[01:21:21] Luis Urrego: [01:21:21] Yeah, go ahead.

[01:21:22] Benjamin Norrod: [01:21:22] Um, I told you about the, I told you about the hate and all that. Uh, there was a boy that I’d, I’d been fighting with fist fighting, like, you know, physically at it before I got saved and I got saved in between my eighth and ninth grade year. I received the Holy ghost right before becoming a freshman in high school. And I used to get in fist fights with this kid. And, uh, when I received the Holy ghost just a few weeks into school, um, we was in the gymnasium and he come up behind me, pushed me down, fell and hit my knee. And man, I jumped up and I was gonna, I was gonna whale. I mean, whether I got [01:22:00] beat up or not, I didn’t care. I was gonna go after him. And all of a sudden I felt something swirl inside of my heart, like right where my heart was at like a swirl feeling. And I felt grief come over me and I just bowed my head quickly and I said, Oh Lord, I’m so sorry. I don’t want to do that now brother, I’m testifying before this audience to say, nobody taught me that. Nobody instructed me. To behave that way. But brother Brendan made a statement that is significant. And, and I’m, um, I’m using these remarks to answer these, the, the, to the question that we’re, we’re addressing. And then that is the question of how I think it’s significant to understand that brother Brem said, when you receive the Holy ghost, it’s swings this body subject to the word. Nobody, not the fight. That was just something I did. That’s one reason I was bullied is because I had, I, they saw me as somebody [01:23:00] that they can pick on and I, I egged him on just as much as they egged me on, probably. And, you know, and, and, uh, it was just, it was just one of those things. But anyhow, I, I don’t, I certainly don’t glorify any of that or glory in it. It was just, it was just part of my history and, and, uh, and I have no feeling in my heart if I would’ve got in a fight with somebody. If I could ever overpower them, which I never consider myself to be tough, but if I could ever overpower them, I probably would just continue doing whatever I had to do without any remorse. But once I received the baptism of the Holy ghost, all of a sudden there’s this new thing happening to me, or I really don’t want to do that. I don’t want to hit the skin. I don’t want to hurt this person. I don’t want to buy it back. Where did that come from? Well, I mean, I could give you 10 quotes, but. What good does that do if you’ve never had that experience? That’s

[01:23:50] Luis Urrego: [01:23:50] right. That’s exactly right. Well, it has to do, has ties down with that. Without an experience with God,

[01:23:58] Benjamin Norrod: [01:23:58] there’s certain

[01:23:58] Luis Urrego: [01:23:58] goes back. It just [01:24:00] goes back to that. And, you know, brother Ben is interesting that you also mentioned that sometimes we can’t really explain sometimes this,

[01:24:07] Benjamin Norrod: [01:24:07] this new birth.

[01:24:09] Luis Urrego: [01:24:09] That’s right. Um, it’s something that, uh, you know, Jesus, when he was talking to Nicodemus. And he was telling him about the new births. Wow. We know that he couldn’t get the new Berkeley because even at that moment, just because Jesus still had to die and resurrect, but

[01:24:23] Benjamin Norrod: [01:24:23] yet

[01:24:24] Luis Urrego: [01:24:24] he was telling him about it and planting that seed, that word, you know, there and, and then he tells him, Hey, I like what he says there. At the end of that scripture, he say, he tells him, he says. You know, the wind blows, but you don’t know where it commits or where it goes.

[01:24:41] Benjamin Norrod: [01:24:41] Right.

[01:24:42] Luis Urrego: [01:24:42] And he said, that’s, that’s everyone that is birth, that is, there’s, you know, born again what Jesus

[01:24:49] Benjamin Norrod: [01:24:49] says.

[01:24:50] Luis Urrego: [01:24:50] I never, I never, I never understood that verse. And then one day I was studying, I was looking into that and like, you know what. I bet you that’s what the Lord was talking about. It’s a, it’s an [01:25:00] experience that, that you

[01:25:01] Benjamin Norrod: [01:25:01] can’t

[01:25:01] Luis Urrego: [01:25:01] really explain. Just like, you can’t really sometimes explain that where the, where the wind is blowing, you know, where it comes to wearing or it goes,

[01:25:10] Benjamin Norrod: [01:25:10] but you know that it’s there because you feel the effects of it. That’s right. That’s right.

[01:25:14] Luis Urrego: [01:25:14] Or you see, or you see the effects of it. You know? In your life. And so the effects of the new birth or the Holy ghost in your life is that your life is changing.

[01:25:22] Benjamin Norrod: [01:25:22] That’s right. That’s exactly right. And I think as we grow in Christ, I think we begin to see more of that happening. But you know, I want to remind everybody too, especially the youth have been born again by the Holy ghost, and you’ve been served the Lord versus number of years, every how long the hardest person to see Christ and as in yourself.

[01:25:45] Luis Urrego: [01:25:45] Yeah.

[01:25:45] Benjamin Norrod: [01:25:45] Yeah. You know, that’s the, that’s the toughest place. I can see it in all kinds of people. But to see it in me, that’s, that’s hard sometimes. Cause you know, you, and, and you know for all the listeners, you know, you young people in all, you know, you better than [01:26:00] anybody. And I think a, a primary issue is as some time on the field, uh, preach. I was in Trinidad was one place that comes to mind. Having some meetings there. And. I, I was preaching on the love of God. There was a, there was a young man that come to me after church and he said, and you said all that was so good about the love of God. And then, then as soon as he shook my hand and stepped away, there was this older brother that, I mean, he was, he was, he was a preacher and he’d been in the message a long time and I know him and he said, I have never really understood God that way. And the crux of what it was is that sometimes we identify God. We blend in together with the abusive father or the mean uncle or the the dictator type mama, or we blend them with the school teacher. That was mean or some boss that’s been a dictator. You know, where we blend God is to being [01:27:00] the same type of man, and we think that he’s at ready to throw us into hell. And just the first mistake we make. The truth of the matter is, is that the love of God is so, you know, he, he, he only corrects us as a, as a friend of mine said sometime ago, we were talking about this in the end, he said, we’re the band. He said, I instructed somebody just the other day to realize that the only time God really corrects us is when he has to. And I thought that was profound because as a father of my three beautiful daughters, I love them dearly with all of my heart. I hate correcting them, but when I do correct them, it is because their behavior has demanded of me that I must correct them. And I feel like it’s the same way with the Lord. And when it comes to the issue of receiving the Holy ghost and having these experiences, I think that holds us back some, because we feel like we’re having to obey a rule from a ruler. We have to line up with a Sergeant in arms, you know, the chief of the, uh, of the, of [01:28:00] the tribe. And, and, you know, so it, it’s not really so much a love affair and allowing somebody to rescue us from a world of sin and a life of sin and in a life of hurt. But it’s more of a, I’ve got to reform myself, like joining the military so I can make something out of myself, you know? And that’s not really what it’s all about. And, and the Lord Jesus is not standing there with a rod of iron in his hand waiting to, you know, whack us in the head and send us to hell. The first is grace is very, very. A, a, a patient long suffering. I mean, description talks about how the, the husband then waited long, long suffering, long patients, waiting, waiting, waiting for us to bring forth fruit early and latter rain. So not just in the early stages of our walk with God, but he’s patient throughout all of it. Uh, one place where the brand described it as a father holding a child visit, the child, stumbles, falls down, reaches and picks him by the hand, raises him up, come on and try it again. That’s the way the Lord does us. [01:29:00] I really feel like we almost have this mentality that God is such a judge that every little mistake we make, that he’s ready to get us. And it’s just not that way. I think the Lord knows we’re human. I think he knows that because he created humans. He created us with all of our little strains and who’s in the Watson and Watson, my jigs and all the little things in our life, the strains and the widgets and the widgets that we were, you know, born with and wrapped bag of our life. And I really believe that God understands that your great, great, great grandfather had a horrible temper and you’ve got 10 times what they had. I think your great, great grandmother might’ve been a flapper and she or her great, great, might’ve been a chorus girl. I think he understands if you’re a rock and roll strip tease, and I think he still knows how to take care of all those problems and his love extends to us in a manner that it’s not a judgemental thing. But it is [01:30:00] a here, I can fix this if you’ll let me fix it.